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 Competition feedback 
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Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 5:44 pm
Posts: 231
Post Competition feedback
So now that the mapping is over and the judging will start soon I'd like to get feedback from everyone about the competition to improve things in the future.

I'm looking for any kind of feedback, just be nice. Things like: were the rules clear? was the secret word useful to see progress? were the prizes appropriate? recommendations for future sponsors? how was the overall competition flow? was it too long/short? should I run it differently next time? should I open it up to other games, like TF2? etc etc.

Basically, anything in/about the competition that you'd like to see fixed or improved or modified.

For me, one thing I want to see improved for next time is how each person posts their map. I felt like from a spectator perspective it was difficult to tell which map I might be interested in just by scanning the forum. I posted daily screenshots to irc channels and the most common comment was "what gametype is that map? I don't like ffa. I want ctf". Unless you actually clicked on each map topic you couldn't tell the gametype.

I'd also like to have some kind of uploader where everyone could upload their final map rather than having to upload them to random places like divshare, etc.

Feedback is crucial to this competition; cityy last year recommended I get Wacom as a sponsor. You don't have to be a competitor to comment either; anyone with a comment is welcome to post. Please do!


Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:30 pm
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Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:49 pm
Posts: 221
Location: Somewhere near Berlin
Post Re: Competition feedback
Id like this to be allowed next time (screenshot). I added an alpha channel to the texture, saved it as .tga and made the shader blend the alpha channel on the wall.

Great competition as always, I really enjoyed it. :) Thank you for hosting this.


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Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:01 pm
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:20 pm
Posts: 50
Post Re: Competition feedback
I think it could have been a little longer, just two extra weeks maybe. 10 weeks seemed to come around really fast. Its not too bad though really, a lot of people seemed ok with it, but I really would have appreciated an extra two weeks (but I have been pretty busy lately with other stuff so maybe that's why). Only other thing is, I thought the sponsor images came a little bit late, but thats not really a huge issue or anything.

Some suggestions I thought of for the future:

Maybe when people do the secret word they should have to post an in-game screenshot as well? Because it gives another idea to how much progress has been made. Just a shot of the mapper's favourite area (or something like that) for that week.

I think using a forum for the comp is pretty much perfect, but might be nice for the mappers to have a larger file size upload limit. And perhaps some kind of gallery which breaks the screenshots down into catagories like "week 1" "week 2" etc. Which you can link to individual shots in the forum, but also maybe access the whole gallery in the profile of the forum user. Then people can look back through the profile and see "mapping comp #4 // week 1 shots" etc.

Overall I think its been a really nice competition though and as long as I'm not too busy with other things I'd definately partake another one :)


Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:19 pm
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Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 5:44 pm
Posts: 231
Post Re: Competition feedback
@cityy:
-Yeah, making the sponsor logos a little more flexible would be awesome. The biggest thing is that each company seems to have different rules on how their logo can be shown. I'll query them about this the next time around though.

@bst:
-The first competition was 6 weeks which was later extended to 10 weeks. We can try 12 weeks though for next time; if you dropped out early would this have made you stay in?
-Sponsor logos did come in a bit late, which was partially my fault. For some reason it is really difficult to get the sponsor logos; you'd think the sponsors would want me to have those early. I'll work on getting those done sooner.
-I'm down with having an editor + ingame screenshot. My only worry is that I'm not sure if you can always get an in-game screnshot if it won't compile (right?).
-I agree with some kind of album or something. Just to make it easier to browse the images. My goal is to make the competition equally entertaining for mappers and spectators. I don't map at all, but watching them develop is pretty exciting.


Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:57 pm
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:20 pm
Posts: 50
Post Re: Competition feedback
Quote:
-I'm down with having an editor + ingame screenshot. My only worry is that I'm not sure if you can always get an in-game screnshot if it won't compile (right?).


All they would need to do is put a structural box around their map for it to compile, and if there are no lights just use r_fullbright 1.

But maybe it is asking a bit much, I'm not sure how people would feel about it. Personally I wouldn't mind doing it though and I think in-game screenshots were a bit lacking in this comp, even from myself, so it would be cool I think, and maybe keep people who aren't involved in the competition more interested.


Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:04 pm
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Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 1:27 pm
Posts: 82
Post Re: Competition feedback
I just wanted to say it's really good that I could start the competition few weeks later then was official start. I was really busy in those first weeks, and couldn't even think about the map, so I would be probably dropped out because lack of the progress then.


Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:34 pm
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Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:59 am
Posts: 94
Post Re: Competition feedback
I think the rules were good, secret word idea helped keep track of progress well. I like the idea of a map uploader embedded right into the site.

For other games: TF2 sounds good. CounterStrike Source may be an option as well since it`s also very popular. Would also think of UT2K4 as well. Of course it probably wouldn`t be feasible to do four games at once, so I suppose TF2 would be the best option.

For sponsors: Maybe some E-Sport companies / groups as sponsors? JeeSports, ESL, etc. would be cool, plus whoever owns them could give great feedback since they come from competitive backgrounds.


Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:17 pm
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Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:31 pm
Posts: 93
Post Re: Competition feedback
Next time u should find more judges
and such that "try to put effort into it",
and that test the maps in the suggested gametype.
Further there were no official test-games announced:
the server were empty, as far as i seen.

And there should be enough time for the mappers to update;
as in the last 2 comps, where u waited 1 week,
before u made the mapPack!

Also: it might be better to make a poll for players
(if mappers upload a test-version durin the comp):
75% judges, 25% players!


Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:27 pm
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Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 3:17 pm
Posts: 210
Post Re: Competition feedback
@Insane: You still have time until 2nd of September to make changes to your map for the final mappack.
And I don't get the poll, sorry...


Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:28 pm
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Site Admin

Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 5:44 pm
Posts: 231
Post Re: Competition feedback
@Insanekid: it was written and stated very early on that this competition is about making *playable* maps. You and I spoke and you mentioned that the judging version of your map didn't work properly in the gametype you made so I'm not overly sure what you are complaining about. If your map was not playable in your specified gametype then how do you expect the judging to be done properly? You even asked me privately days after the competition ended that the judging version of your map be replaced by one you had fixed *after* the deadline; I made it very clear to you that was not allowed and was not fair for the other mappers.

The test servers that were available are there IF people decide to use them. Every judge is different and judges in their own way; they are not forced to use a specific server. I'm sure I don't need to remind you that the judges are all donating their time and receive absolutely no benefit by being one. They were chosen based on their experience with Quake 3 and/or mapping and/or playing.

Having said that, everyone has at least a week until the final mappack is put together for downloading. Even at that point if you make more changes I'll gladly update it more.


Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:15 pm
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Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:31 pm
Posts: 93
Post Re: Competition feedback
i made 2 updates within 24h after the deadline.
and i spoke to u at the same! day!

i didnt know, that there were no updates possible.
i thought, it was the same as in the last 2 comps.
(Kaffeewunder can confirm that,
we spoke about it at the beginning!)

And i still feel treated unfair by 1 Judge,
which wrote: he
"Didnt even try to put effort into it"!

Edit:
the first version almost was playable ...
but IMPORTANT things were not workin!
its been the same, as if 1 would have forgotten
to place the red/blue flag in his CTF-map ...
that wouldnt work properly, too.


Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:53 pm
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Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 2:59 am
Posts: 61
Post Re: Competition feedback
deadlines are deadlines man. still, harsh comment non the less. i also feel like dONKEY got a bit shafted... but well, thats the way it rolls i guess.


Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:39 am
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Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 3:11 am
Posts: 119
Post Re: Competition feedback
I'm not complaining about being 'shafted'...I'm only part time over-sensitive ;)

It was slightly annoying that some maps that came above mine had not adhered to the rules though...things like placing logos on animated flags etc....

Am not entirely happy with the SD method of working out the scores either. Judging is always going to be subjective, and I'm not sure mathematical formulas are really the way to go the ensure 'fairness'.

That said I don't want to be seen as entering a competition and the complaining about the rules when I don't like the outcome.

These contests have done a huge amount to keep Q3 mapping alive, and in the end, for me at least that overrides any concerns I have or slight I might feel.


Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:43 am
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Site Admin

Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 5:44 pm
Posts: 231
Post Re: Competition feedback
Quote:
It was slightly annoying that some maps that came above mine had not adhered to the rules though...things like placing logos on animated flags etc....


This was my fault completely. I ran out of time to audit each map individually to make sure they adhereed to the logo rule prior to final submission so you can blame me for this completely. I've contacted each mapper privately to have them fix this issue prior to the final map pack deadline. Sorry about that.


Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:31 pm
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Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:37 am
Posts: 21
Post Re: Competition feedback
Can someone show me these rules as I seem to have missed them?

I had good feedback about having the logos on animated flags, I also don't see the problem with it they are clear and visible and do not change the appearance of the original image.

I had fun being involved in this comp even though I started late, its been great to see peoples ideas and creations and am amazed at what some of you came up with very well done guys.

Regards
Fubsy


Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:02 pm
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